Credit: Universal PicturesAre Marvel movies profound? Do they speak to the human condition and to the state of art in the world? Well, no, says a star of The Incredible Hulk (2008), but that doesn’t mean that the Marvel Cinematic Universe isn’t still cinema.
For almost two decades, the MCU has been the dominant blockbuster franchise in the world, starting with Iron Man (2008). The Robert Downey Jr. film set the template for the rest of the series; its tone of noble heroics, flawed heroes, and a bantering tone has been imitated by the rest of the franchise to the point where it seems difficult for the studio to even attempt to do anything else.
The Incredible Hulk was the second MCU film released, starring Edward Norton as Bruce Banner, AKA the Hulk, Liv Tyler as Betty Ross, Tim Roth as Emil Blonsky, AKA the Abomination, William Hurt as General Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross, and Tim Blake Nelson as Samuel Sterns, who would end the movie on his gamma-induced way to becoming the villainous Leader.
Related: Marvel Officially Cancels ‘Captain Marvel’ After Brie Larson Flop
For years, the sole solo Hulk film in the MCU was treated as a bit of an outlier in the greater canon. Norton was replaced by Mark Ruffalo amid rumors of internal power struggles, William Hurt sadly passed away, and there has not been any word of a proper sequel in years, despite fan demand for a World War Hulk adaptation.
However, there have been increasing references to the film of late, including appearances by Tim Roth in Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021) and She-Hulk: Attorney at Law.
Captain America: Brave New World, the upcoming film featuring Anthony Mackie as Sam Wilson in his first solo adventure as the new Cap, will feature the return of Thunderbolt Ross (now portrayed by a mustache-less Harrison Ford), Betty Ross (a returning Tyler) and the Leader (Nelson).
Although the lattermost character’s role in the film is still shrouded in mystery (it probably involves the Red Hulk, to be fair), the actor himself has been very active in the press, talking about his love of the MCU.
Tim Blake Nelson has said that he felt tremendous disappointment at thinking he would never return as the Leader after The Incredible Hulk, eventually believing that his character had been dropped. His return in Brave New World was a welcome surprise, with the actor saying:
I have to say that I had given up on coming back as well, and not without a tremendous amount of despair. But I’m glad it took this long because the character I [play], actually, I think demands my own life experience over the past 18 years. Because there’s a real depth and rage and pathos to this guy, and I needed 18 more years of life experience to try and pull that off.
Nelson has also emerged to defend Marvel films as a form of cinema, albeit one not on the level of what many would call “high art.” Speaking to Variety, the actor addressed (as all MCU actors apparently feel compelled to do) the 2019 remarks by legendary filmmaker Martin Scorsese, when he dismissed the genre as being more akin to theme parks than films.
The actor’s rebuttal:
“I couldn’t respect Martin Scorsese more, he’s his own genre, but I disagree with him when he derides Marvel. I come down on the side of Marvel movies absolutely being cinema. They return us to being kids again. When they are really good, and they often are, you lose yourself in them. Are they profound? Are they Goodfellas (1990) and Miller’s Crossing (1990), are they Bicycle Thieves (1948), Schindler’s List (1993), or [Polish filmmaker Krzysztof] Kieślowski? No, but they aren’t aspiring to be. They are entertainment, and there’s artistry involved in them. That’s my Marvel speech.”
Related: Major Marvel Changes: Ryan Reynolds “Fired” and Robert Downey Jr. Scrapped
In his original statement to Empire, Martin Scorsese was perceived as dismissing Marvel movies as a whole, saying, “I don’t see them. I tried, you know? But that’s not cinema. Honestly, the closest I can think of them, as well-made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances, is theme parks. It isn’t the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being.”
Scorsese would later clarify his comments in a more nuanced New York Times op-ed, going into his concern for the state of art in the world, the current economics of Hollywood, and his personal disinterest in the superhero genre. Despite that, even five years later, MCU actors feel the need to hit back at him a little bit over it. At least we now know how the Leader feels about it.
Do you think Marvel will ever make another solo Hulk movie?